Cost and value are the two determinants when making a product or service decision. Joe Piccirilli, CEO of RoseWater Energy, knows this as both a consumer and dealer in the energy sector. Piccirilli shared his perspectives with Host Tyler Kern about how dealers and consumers can approach these determinants for energy products.
One main reason integrators may be unwilling to discuss RoseWater products is because they fear losing a project by giving the impression that products may add high costs. Piccirilli explained that dealers must reassess their duty to the client by asking themselves, “How can I present a series of facts to the client so that client can make an appropriate value judgment?”
The client also needs to realize that products with more expense hold value. This is challenging, because the client personally defines value, and many might think, “How much is it worth if that equipment functions properly at all times regardless of what utilities it provides?” This is not the salesperson’s job.
“We are the aggregator of information. We have to present that information in a cogent fashion so that our clients can allocate an appropriate budget,” Piccirilli explained. “If I’m an expert in this field, the only way I can prove my expertise is to let people know that I know every product available. I know what the very best is and I know how you can get by for very little money.”
RoseWater Energy offers information about product categories and specifications, including video clips and articles on how to present products. Content should be completed by the end of December. Piccirilli also welcomes comments from dealers and clients, which shape future podcast topics. You can contact him at joepic@rosewaterenergy.com.
FULL TRANSCRIPT OF VIDEO:
Tyler Kern (00:00):
Hello, everyone. And welcome to The Next Generation of Energy podcast brought to you by RoseWater Energy. I’m your host Tyler Kern. And as always, I’m joined by Joe Piccirilli, the CEO of RoseWater Energy. Joe, welcome back for another episode, how you doing man?
Joe Piccirilli (00:12):
I’m doing great, Tyler. It’s great to be back for another episode. I hope you are doing well.
Tyler Kern (00:17):
I am doing fantastically. And we have a lot of great stuff that we can talk about here on the podcast today, but we wanted to hone in on one specific avenue, and that is you’ve run into a bit of a situation, right? Where integrators tell you that they’re unwilling to discuss RoseWater products because they don’t want to give off the impression that they’re too expensive, right? And so break this down for us. Break down this situation that you’re seeing in the marketplace, and then we can dive a little bit more into some of the specifics.
Joe Piccirilli (00:43):
All right. I will try to break it down. It is interesting to me because what I have run into is people saying, “I don’t want to risk losing a project by presenting products that are expensive.” And it’s interesting because as I thought it through, and I certainly can understand the fear. I mean, you think you have your job landed, and if you’re going to add what you believe to be an exorbitant amount of money to that job, you’ll stand a chance of looking expensive.
Joe Piccirilli (01:11):
I get all of those fears, but really you have to take a step back and say, well, what is my duty to the client? And that’s what I think people are missing in this, particularly in the world of energy, which on its good days is really confusing. On its bad days it’s impossible to understand. And if you were to take a step back and say, okay, how can I present a series of facts to a client so that that client can make the appropriate value judgment? It becomes obvious, at least to me that unless you know what the very best can do.
Joe Piccirilli (01:58):
And then what happens when you choose products to do less than the best, which costs less? How does a client make that judgment that says, “Wait, if that little piece that I’m giving up, that’s not worth it. I want to spend that money. Or, I can afford to give that up.” And what we’re asking our clients to do is make a value judgment. And it is of course a value judgment that is based on their values, not my values or your values, it’s their values.
Joe Piccirilli (02:34):
So I think it becomes extremely important that we’ve one, first define what our roles are. And our roles are really the people we hold information. I hate to use this analogy somewhat like Google, we are the aggregator of information. And we have to present that information in a cogent fashion so that our clients can allocate appropriate budget.
Joe Piccirilli (03:02):
I think that’s where this whole thing goes off the rails because you’re sitting there going, “Oh my God, the client only has this amount of money to allocate.” Well, we don’t know that. We have no idea. Even when the client says, I only want to spend X dollars, the client is generally coming up with that number because a friend told him or her.
Tyler Kern (03:25):
Right.
Joe Piccirilli (03:26):
It is not based on information that they have within the industry, because if they had all that information about energy, they wouldn’t need us to make a decision. They could just go out and go, “I want that.” The fact of the matter is, as we said earlier, this field is so confusing that no one can make that judgment without help. So that’s really what prompted me to have this discussion today is, let’s talk about it and let’s talk about what our jobs are and what it means to really assist clients out there.
Joe Piccirilli (04:00):
So, that’s what I’m thinking about. And you and I were discussing this off air a little bit. There are people who were introduced to the world of energy and energy storage and renewable energy based on return on investment. And that was the first thrust, “Oh, your electricity bill’s going to go to zero.” Which was of course was a bit of hyperbole. Or, “This thing will pay for itself in four days.” Well, not exactly.
Joe Piccirilli (04:31):
So the entire industry decided that renewable energy and in particular battery backup that is paired with it is all about return on investment. And of course there’s a great deal more to what’s going on here because as we have discussed in previous broadcasts, there is this power quality component, and how much is it worth to someone, a client, to make sure that all of their equipment functions properly at all times, regardless of what the utilities provide.
Joe Piccirilli (05:08):
And unless we are able to come out and say, hey, if you want the most complete solution that will give you battery backup, that will condition your power, that will do all of these things, integrate renewables. And that particular product is X dollars in price. And then if that component is not important to you and this component is important, here’s what those differences can be. Does that make sense?
Tyler Kern (05:37):
Yeah, absolutely. It reminds me to an extent of thinking you know what you want in a home, right? If you’re going to shop for a house for instance, and then you see a different house with maybe some things that you didn’t think that you wanted, but now that you’ve seen it, you’re like, well now I have to have that.
Tyler Kern (05:56):
But it’s hard to put a dollar value on power quality, like you mentioned. And the convenience and the peace of mind that, that offers. For some people that’s obviously going to be worth it. And so to not present that as an option assumes that you know best when you probably don’t, right?
Joe Piccirilli (06:15):
Correct. And I think the house analogy is perfect because any of us who have been involved in buying a house, and no matter how many times you buy a house, you run into the same thing. “Oh God, I didn’t know you could get that.”
Tyler Kern (06:28):
Exactly.
Joe Piccirilli (06:29):
“Why you tell me?” Because now my budget let’s see, is now 2X. It doesn’t stop people from buying houses, it never has. So I think that’s an excellent analogy. I know one that I use often as well, because it is, most people have never had to go out and buy a bulldozer. So you just sit down and say, “Tyler, I want you to go out and buy me a bulldozer.” How much should you bring with you? You’re clueless.
Tyler Kern (07:06):
I have no idea.
Joe Piccirilli (07:08):
You’re clueless. But you might want to start out by going, “Well wait, what do bulldozers cost?” So, okay, the very best, biggest, and baddest bulldozer is X. And the not so biggest and baddest saves me 20%. It can start making a decision on a product you know absolutely nothing about. So I think all of that, it becomes extremely important. And I think that’s what our dealers lose sight of. They lose sight of, wait a minute, what’s my job?
Joe Piccirilli (07:41):
I’m not going to lose it, and in fact, ask an expert. If I am an expert in this field, the only way I can prove my expertise is to let people know that I know every product available. I know what the very best is. And I know how you can get by for very little money and oh, by the way, this is what you give up.
Tyler Kern (08:01):
Yeah.
Joe Piccirilli (08:04):
And I think that becomes extremely critical. We have grown very, very narrow in our focus. I think part of it has been that during the pandemic, when it comes to everything in your house, networking, home theater, people were just stocking up because they weren’t leaving their houses. And I think people are going in there and saying, well, this sale’s easy. I can take the easy way out, and just, here’s a budget. Cool. I’ll do it. That’s fun in the short run, but in the long run, you start eating your children, that’s just not good because the future sales are gone. So it becomes extremely important.
Joe Piccirilli (08:43):
And I’m hoping that whoever sees and listens to this will comment on it because I know that I’ve been selling my whole career, I’ve been doing it for a long time. And so I’m somewhat jaded in my ways. But I have never run into a problem ever by showing people the very best, never. Because as we talked about earlier, the incremental difference in improvement as you get better and better becomes more and more expensive. And you sit down and say, well wait, what is worth it to the client, not for me? And then anything the client buys appears to be an excellent value relative to the very best if that’s not what he or she chooses to buy.
Joe Piccirilli (09:32):
So as a salesperson, a consultant or salesperson, I just can’t come up with a better way of doing it. And it certainly has been successful for me throughout my career. So I am hoping now that as people get used to introducing the concept of energy management, energy storage, and power improvement in their houses, they become more comfortable with presenting to people, here is if you want the most complete, if you want the very best, these are the prices we’re talking about. And I am here to tell you, I believe that will never … Well never is a strong word. You will rarely put the sale at risk.
Tyler Kern (10:16):
Right. Right. I think that’s a good point. Is there an element to this Joe, that you feel that maybe some integrators are unsure about the benefits of energy management? Or aren’t totally sold on the impacts of it? Is there an element of this that you think is tied into that? Or is that maybe a separate issue?
Joe Piccirilli (10:35):
Oh no. I think that’s such a good question. And the answer is yes. I think there is an element where this industry has been used to selling particularly power quality products that work at the rack level, that are relatively inexpensive. And in many cases have just been added into the sale at the end, without any real, “Hey, you should have this.” And sales budgets work on the LIFO principle, last in, first out.
Joe Piccirilli (11:06):
The clients will sit there and say, you know what? It’s just because it has not been presented as why you should have this. It has been presented as you should have this. So that will be the first thing I’ll always eliminate it from budget. And they’re used to these products costing a couple thousand dollars, not tens of thousands or a hundred thousand. So I think there is a fear level that comes from just lack of knowledge.
Joe Piccirilli (11:35):
I accept part of the blame for that as I go out and teach because it is when we first started RoseWater, I had no idea what the product would cost. My goal was to build the very best product. Many manufacturers will all remain unnamed, choose a price point. Well, the price point average in this product category is $1,500. So they build a product to that price point. So the price point goes on before the quality goes in.
Joe Piccirilli (12:10):
The RoseWater philosophy was in totally the opposite. My partners and I went out and said, okay, let’s figure out how to build the very best product. And then we’ll figure out how much it costs after we build it.
Tyler Kern (12:24):
Right.
Joe Piccirilli (12:25):
And that, when you look at it, you look at all the great brands. I am pretty sure that the people who make the Rolex watch don’t build it to a price point. I am very sure that people who build a Ferrari don’t build it to a price point. It’s just, okay, I want to build a car that will do this. And I want the very best one. I want to build what I think is the best time piece in the world.
Joe Piccirilli (12:51):
And that passion is what our clients need to know exists. And that’s a huge difference. And our dealers, of course, our dealer base, we’re really not used to being told that.
Joe Piccirilli (13:04):
And then they become, well, wait a minute. What do you mean it’s a hundred times that price? Yes, because in order to do it correctly, if you are looking to do the very best, this is what it costs. That’s not taking a thousand dollars product and multiplying by a hundred and saying, “Okay, I’m going to get away with it.” This is, hey, wait, if you are going to build the very best, this is what it costs and your clients should know that products like this exist. And it doesn’t matter whether it’s energy products or TV or an audio system, it doesn’t matter. You should know. I mean, in the world of audio, there are a pair of loudspeakers out there that cost one million dollars.
Tyler Kern (13:52):
Yep. Yep.
Joe Piccirilli (13:54):
I’ll tell you, I’ve heard them. They’re damn good. Incrementally, over a pair of loud speakers that cost a mere hundred thousand, you may say, I don’t know that they’re worth 10 times the money. On the other hand, if you want the very best, they’re it. This is no joke about it. It’s in that same vein and we keep trying to impose our values on someone else. And that’s unfair.
Tyler Kern (14:20):
That’s as an excellent point, and a great way of putting it. And you started off that answer talking about education, where can people go? What resources do we have, in addition to the podcast, obviously, because that’s primarily what we’re doing here on a regular basis is educating people and educating integrators and people like that. What other resources exist to help educate people on what RoseWater does, the effects of energy management, and all of the various things that we’re discussing here today?
Joe Piccirilli (14:46):
Well, certainly if you visit our website at trades.rosewaterenergy.com, there are tremendous amounts of information on the product specificity, why the product category is important. We are embarking on a series of both video clips and articles that talk about how you present this product, the actual sales process. And again, after spending a significant time on the road with my sales manager lately and my sales manager pounding this into my head saying, “Okay, Joe, we need to go out and figure out how to make people comfortable presenting this product.”
Joe Piccirilli (15:26):
And we are really creating a significant amount of content that certainly will be well fleshed out by the end of December. That will help all of our dealers learn to present and position, not just our products, but all of the very best products in category. It goes beyond just presenting RoseWater. It goes to, hey, if you’re going to present the best, this is how you do it. And then, if you know Tyler, we’re coming to visit, to do a full video shoot centered around this very topic, I guess in two weeks, the [crosstalk 00:00:16:01].
Tyler Kern (16:01):
I can’t wait. I can’t wait.
Joe Piccirilli (16:02):
I think that’s going to be fun. Because we’ll have a bunch of dealers from around the country on film, and we’re going to ask them these same questions straight up. So you won’t just hear it for me, who we already know, is not a particularly objective source. But you’ll hear it from dealers who are successful, or who are trying to be successful. So that’s going to be a lot of fun.
Tyler Kern (16:23):
That’s going to be excellent. Now I think some fantastic pieces of content will come from that, and some really great educational tools as well. And Joe, I wonder, I know our audience here is primarily integrators, but how can consumers, if someone is listening to this from a consumer perspective, push to understand what the best is, and maybe demand a little bit more from dealers and from people along those lines. Can consumer demand play a role in pushing for better education and to understand, hey, I want the best in my home. I want you to go out and get it for me sort of thing. Can consumers play that role in this as well?
Joe Piccirilli (17:03):
Yes. I think consumers can play a great role in this. And I think that consumers have to be, and many of them are afraid to ask this question. And consumers have to go out there and say, “Okay, what is the very best product out there? I don’t care what you’re talking about, just tell me what’s the best?” And I think that that becomes a very important question. And from a consumer standpoint, I understand the hesitancy saying, “Well, this guy thinks I’m going to spend this on the mood and the stars. And I don’t want to give him any indication.” But the fact is, if you ask what is the best, and then you follow up by saying, okay, why is that the best?
Tyler Kern (17:44):
Yeah.
Joe Piccirilli (17:45):
What makes it the best? Why is it the best? And then what happens if I want the second best? What does that mean? Those are the simple questions that consumers can start to ask. We again are building because we’re moving in the direction you and I have been talking about for a while, we’re going to divide our website into two. We are going to have a consumer-facing website that will have okay, this is how you go out and shop for this product. This is the questions you have to ask, because if you don’t ask those questions, people will make assumptions that are not necessarily correct. And I think that’s the best way that consumers can deal with this.
Tyler Kern (18:24):
Well, Joe, as we start to wrap up this episode today, any final thoughts? Anything you want to leave our listeners and viewers with here after this conversation that they walk away with?
Joe Piccirilli (18:33):
Well, what I’d really love to do is as we wrap this up is people listening, people who see this, and who play it back later on, if you have comment, please comment to me at RoseWater, joepic@rosewater.energy.com. Because I’d love to know your thoughts. Because many of your thoughts, particularly dealers and clients will shape what our next broadcasts are about, what our next podcasts. And they will certainly shape the contents of our website.
Joe Piccirilli (19:02):
So I’m going to go out there with a plea, please help us out. Because we’re more than happy to provide information that is not necessarily specific to RoseWater, but we are passionate about the category and what is specific to the category. And that’s what I’d like to leave our listeners with.
Tyler Kern (19:19):
Excellent stuff. Reach out to Joe there. He gave his email address just a moment ago. You can also go to RoseWaterEnergy.com and check out what they have there. And I’m sure there’s a contact button there on the page as well, where people can get in touch, obviously follow along with everything going on at RoseWater Energy and stay up to date with the latest. And so of course, make sure to visit RoseWaterEnergy.com. And you can go back and listen to previous episodes of the podcast there as well, find more information and more educational materials there on the website.
Tyler Kern (19:48):
Joe, it’s always a pleasure. Thank you for joining me for another episode and can’t wait to see you here in Dallas here in a couple weeks.
Joe Piccirilli (19:56):
I’m looking forward to it, Tyler, and thank you.
Tyler Kern (19:57):
Absolutely. And thank you listeners and viewers for joining us for another episode of The Next Generation of Energy. Like Joe said, make sure to reach out if you have questions, comments, if you want to learn more just about this segment of the industry, make sure to reach out and talk to Joe about that.
Tyler Kern (20:10):
Get that conversation started and stay tuned. We’ll be back soon with more episodes of the podcast. So stay tuned for that. But for this one, from my cohost Joe Piccirilli, I’ve been your host, Tyler Kern. Thanks for joining us.